I am a US Navy Veteran. You are absolutely correct. Since the first open bottom boat was blown out of the water in the Caribbean & people onboard were killed it was & is murder. Firing upon & bombing occupied unarmed craft is illegal as it is. Rules of engagement do apply. Hegseth stating war on drugs & MAYBE those boats are carrying drugs certainly does not justify bombing, missiling or firing upon them & then murdering people in them while clinging to what's left. The military personnel doing this didn't stop and think about the multiple laws they are violating before launching fire, who was giving those orders & that they were following illegal orders. If they are charged & court martialed will do years in Leavenworth. The civilians involved need to see federal courts & prison.
Brilliant and compelling expository travel through the laws of war and solid arguments for criminal charges up and down the chain of command...one truly hopes that all of the killings in open seas — 83 and counting — are being thoroughly documented, and when at long last this fetid, law-breaking regime is turfed out, appropriate lawful authorities do the right thing and call to account all those culpable of wanton murders, no excuses proffered, especially "we were only following orders".
And, for god's sake, none of the usual BS about "turning the page"..."look forward, not backward"...and the worst of all, no "this will tear the country apart" punking out.
Presidential pardon power needs to be carefully re-examined. Potus should not have the power to pardon anyone he likes because its Friday or Tuesday, they are his friends, fellow billionaires, murderers in his cabinet & military & the people he sent to attack the US Capitol & etc.
Fine. Good. So who in the US is going to lay a charge on Hegseth and others in the chain of command for these manifestly illegal orders?
Aye, there's the rub. And see, that's why the ICC is not, as you say, a sideshow, whether or not the US accepts the ICC's jurisdiction. Or *especially* since it doesn't.
I get where you're coming from William, and we're in the same corner here:
As a non-lawyer I can't take issue with any of your legal logic. But as is so often the case since those heady days of Nuremberg and those good faith efforts to operationalize legal instruments against military excess and atrocity, now when people try to parse the legalities & illegalities of atrocity, we end up exactly *here*.
So, I have an earnest suggestion; go back to the drawing board and re-frame this as follows: *With reference to precedent and any & all instruments of international & US domestic law, here are the possible avenues of recourse and redress available to the families of those who were killed in the US strikes and to any others who might be motivated to intervene*.
Since there is no statute of limitations on murder, and presuming Trump doesn't pardon everyone involved, they can be charged with crimes the second the President is out of office.
It does terrify me that the military--or too many in the military--are following illegal orders, and it's especially terrifying that many of them appear to be coming from a really, truly pathetic wannabe cosplayer like Pete Hegseth. Has anyone ordered a brain scan to detect alcohol related damage yet? Your post is so enlightening. If only the NYT and WaPo would make it front page news.
I am venezuelan and I couldn't believe that the news were " He ordered to strike again the first boat, so now he is a war criminal". I have been saying that he was already a criminal after the first strike, not so brilliantly as you, of course, but my intuition had told me that since September.
Crystal clear and scary as hell! I somehow always bought into the narrative of the US military «sacred oath» stuff, that when push came to shove, the moral and legal compass of the officers corps would be a solid wall of protection against the «I was only following orders» scenario. Guess not!
No statute of limitations on this type of crime. Pardons for it later be damned. It's very clear that SecDef will say he was following orders from Trump, Trump will claim it was an official act (SCOTUS gave immunity for that for him only) SecDef will be thrown under the bus (immunity for me not for thee) and JSOC Bradley will face court-martial and 20-25 years in prison, while the operator team (Seal 6, definitely knows better) will do time as well. If pardons are given they'll be overturned quickly as the administration loses all power in 2026/2028. Justice will take years, but karma will be swift when the pendulum swings back.
If Hegseth ordered military strikes on civilian vessels in international waters, he is a war criminal; when Hegseth ordered a second strike to murder two survivors who were clinging to the burning hull, he, every officer who relayed the orders, and the individuals who released the munitions are war criminals. If—when he gave the order to violate international laws—Hegseth was relaying an order from the Whitehouse, Donald Trump is a war criminal.
Thank you for this enlightening post. Most of us know nothing about military laws and operations. It’s good to have a knowledgeable person explain these things. Now, if only someone with power listened and acted on this information.
A war is a prerequisite for a war crime to be committed and there is no war.
The strike was already a crime without Hegseth order, and there have been 20 more boats exploded without any real consequences.
Do you really think this new information will matter?
It seems clear to me that nobody will stop this illigal and outrageous attacks.
Thanks to that absence of reaction, now they are thretening to come inside our territory, and sadly I think they will, and again, we'll only have ourselves to defend our country."
I am a US Navy Veteran. You are absolutely correct. Since the first open bottom boat was blown out of the water in the Caribbean & people onboard were killed it was & is murder. Firing upon & bombing occupied unarmed craft is illegal as it is. Rules of engagement do apply. Hegseth stating war on drugs & MAYBE those boats are carrying drugs certainly does not justify bombing, missiling or firing upon them & then murdering people in them while clinging to what's left. The military personnel doing this didn't stop and think about the multiple laws they are violating before launching fire, who was giving those orders & that they were following illegal orders. If they are charged & court martialed will do years in Leavenworth. The civilians involved need to see federal courts & prison.
Brilliant and compelling expository travel through the laws of war and solid arguments for criminal charges up and down the chain of command...one truly hopes that all of the killings in open seas — 83 and counting — are being thoroughly documented, and when at long last this fetid, law-breaking regime is turfed out, appropriate lawful authorities do the right thing and call to account all those culpable of wanton murders, no excuses proffered, especially "we were only following orders".
And, for god's sake, none of the usual BS about "turning the page"..."look forward, not backward"...and the worst of all, no "this will tear the country apart" punking out.
100% agree. Enough of the “forgive and forget” BS. All that has gotten us to is this point in history.
Next question. When people are correctly charged and indicted and Trump issues them all pardons, where are we as a country of laws?
Presidential pardon power needs to be carefully re-examined. Potus should not have the power to pardon anyone he likes because its Friday or Tuesday, they are his friends, fellow billionaires, murderers in his cabinet & military & the people he sent to attack the US Capitol & etc.
Now Hegseth is drunk on power too.
He's probably drunk on whiskey at the same time.
I really learned a lot. Thanks!
Thank you for the nuanced post to what Kegseth et al are doing. We knew this would happen when IG’s were fired. Give tequila Pete free rein. 🤦🏻♂️
Fine. Good. So who in the US is going to lay a charge on Hegseth and others in the chain of command for these manifestly illegal orders?
Aye, there's the rub. And see, that's why the ICC is not, as you say, a sideshow, whether or not the US accepts the ICC's jurisdiction. Or *especially* since it doesn't.
I get where you're coming from William, and we're in the same corner here:
https://open.substack.com/pub/greghansen/p/more-my-lais-more-hadithas-more-abu?r=38ktr&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
As a non-lawyer I can't take issue with any of your legal logic. But as is so often the case since those heady days of Nuremberg and those good faith efforts to operationalize legal instruments against military excess and atrocity, now when people try to parse the legalities & illegalities of atrocity, we end up exactly *here*.
So, I have an earnest suggestion; go back to the drawing board and re-frame this as follows: *With reference to precedent and any & all instruments of international & US domestic law, here are the possible avenues of recourse and redress available to the families of those who were killed in the US strikes and to any others who might be motivated to intervene*.
Since there is no statute of limitations on murder, and presuming Trump doesn't pardon everyone involved, they can be charged with crimes the second the President is out of office.
It does terrify me that the military--or too many in the military--are following illegal orders, and it's especially terrifying that many of them appear to be coming from a really, truly pathetic wannabe cosplayer like Pete Hegseth. Has anyone ordered a brain scan to detect alcohol related damage yet? Your post is so enlightening. If only the NYT and WaPo would make it front page news.
I am venezuelan and I couldn't believe that the news were " He ordered to strike again the first boat, so now he is a war criminal". I have been saying that he was already a criminal after the first strike, not so brilliantly as you, of course, but my intuition had told me that since September.
Crystal clear and scary as hell! I somehow always bought into the narrative of the US military «sacred oath» stuff, that when push came to shove, the moral and legal compass of the officers corps would be a solid wall of protection against the «I was only following orders» scenario. Guess not!
No statute of limitations on this type of crime. Pardons for it later be damned. It's very clear that SecDef will say he was following orders from Trump, Trump will claim it was an official act (SCOTUS gave immunity for that for him only) SecDef will be thrown under the bus (immunity for me not for thee) and JSOC Bradley will face court-martial and 20-25 years in prison, while the operator team (Seal 6, definitely knows better) will do time as well. If pardons are given they'll be overturned quickly as the administration loses all power in 2026/2028. Justice will take years, but karma will be swift when the pendulum swings back.
If Hegseth ordered military strikes on civilian vessels in international waters, he is a war criminal; when Hegseth ordered a second strike to murder two survivors who were clinging to the burning hull, he, every officer who relayed the orders, and the individuals who released the munitions are war criminals. If—when he gave the order to violate international laws—Hegseth was relaying an order from the Whitehouse, Donald Trump is a war criminal.
Thank you for this enlightening post. Most of us know nothing about military laws and operations. It’s good to have a knowledgeable person explain these things. Now, if only someone with power listened and acted on this information.
I understood from the start the military would not live up to their oath.
Just like I understood before it was ever obvious that Trump is a murderer.
I wrote this as soon I read the news:
''This is again all rhetoric.
A war is a prerequisite for a war crime to be committed and there is no war.
The strike was already a crime without Hegseth order, and there have been 20 more boats exploded without any real consequences.
Do you really think this new information will matter?
It seems clear to me that nobody will stop this illigal and outrageous attacks.
Thanks to that absence of reaction, now they are thretening to come inside our territory, and sadly I think they will, and again, we'll only have ourselves to defend our country."
Thank you for the detailed explanation.
Especially for giving me concrete reasons to dislike Parnas’ reporting; previously I disliked it just on vibes.